In the Jungle—An Interview with the Foxtrot Games Team

relic boxToday we have the distinct pleasure of chatting with the brains behind Foxtrot Games, and the creators of Relic Expedition, Randy Hoyt and Tyler Segel.

Guys, thanks so much for taking some time for us today!

First off, can you tell us a little bit about yourselves, and how Foxtrot Games came to be? RH: My name's Randy Hoyt, and I work professionally as a Web developer and a technology educator. I teach Web development for a startup called Treehouse. I live in Orlando, Florida, with my wife and two boys, ages 6 and 1.

 

TS: I’m Tyler Segel. I am the Creative Director and co-owner of Factory North, a graphic design studio in Portland, Oregon. I enjoy playing board games with my wife and our friends, going to Timbers soccer games, and camping in the Pacific Northwest.

We have a family reunion every summer, and Randy and I always bring a few board games from our collections. Last summer, we struggled to convince the rest of our family to play games with us. We realized that there was a gap in the market for a game that was easy to learn and had a relatively short play time, but still had enough strategy to hold the interest of Randy and me. We brainstormed quite a bit during that weekend, and then Randy took off with our idea and came up with some solid mechanics. Being in the creative field, it was really important to me that the game looked good. There are so many fun games out there that just look slapped together. I really appreciate when game designers pay attention to those little details.

How did you first get into board gaming? What game sealed the deal for you as a gamer?

RH: I've been playing board games and card games for as long as I can remember. Every year at Christmas we would get a new family board game: games like Clue, Life, and Yahtzee. I would often play games by myself, physically moving around the table each turn and playing each player separately. I remember doing that with an old copy of Risk I found at my grandma's house; I still have that copy. I still love playing cards, the combinations of suits and ranks, plus the possibilities for amazing artwork on the face cards.

I took a bit of a break from board games during and shortly after college, but I'd have to credit two games with bringing me back into it. The first was Texas Hold 'Em. I couldn't believe that people were watching others play cards on television, and I had a lot of poker nights. And then Settlers of Catan. That was my first Euro-style game, I suppose, and I've since been playing the new ones as they come out.

TS: I grew up playing games like Monopoly here and there with my family, but I first got hooked on Euro-style games about 6 or 7 years ago. I was hanging out with some friends, and someone brought Settlers of Catan. I was immediately drawn to the mechanics and strategy of the game. There was so much going on and it was so interesting. That game really opened the door for me to board games.

Have you ever gone on an expedition of your own? Or are you both just big fans of Indiana Jones?

TS: I can’t say I’ve ever been on an expedition. I liked Indiana Jones when I was a kid, and I really thought that the jungle theme was fun and accessible for our game. I’ve always been intrigued by vintage comics, and I had seen some with a jungle theme that I had in mind for our game. There’s something about that aesthetic that really attracted me.

RH: I actually never really got into Indiana Jones; The Empire Strikes Back and Back to the Future are my favorite movies from the '80s. Space travel and time travel appeal to me more than hacking my way through a jungle with a machete. I probably wouldn't make it one day on a real relic expedition!

Take us through the design process of Relic Expedition; were there any games that influenced or inspired your design?

RH: In that initial brainstorming session at the family reunion Tyler mentioned, we came up with most of the concepts in the final game: the expanding jungle board, the backpack constraint, the wild animals, the geographic features. (We had lots of other ideas that I felt needed to be pushed off to future expansions, such as roles with special abilities as in Pandemic.) We knew there would be collectible treasures but hadn't really worked out how someone would win. I didn't want the sheer quantity of treasures collected to matter; I wanted something more subtle than that. My love of playing cards, with their two attributes (rank and suit), came through here, I think, and I gave each treasure two different attributes (color and symbol). We talk about set collection at our house a lot, both the game mechanic and the psychological principle. Having that as the core mechanic for victory really appealed to me.

prototype2

I made a few different prototypes. The first was made out of cardstock and pieces cannibalized from other games. I played that with widely different rules a dozen times over two weeks, about one game a day. It was a fun process of seeing what was working and what was still lacking. I'll give you one example. In the first few games, players had to get all the way back to the basecamp board in the middle to win, and players would explore different parts of the jungle independently. I added helicopter clearings to jungle tiles for the sixth game; they really worked with the theme and really helped both of those issues.

After about a dozen games, I had a decent idea of how many tiles, animals, supplies, and treasures would make the game work best. I ordered wooden hexagon tiles from some craft Web site, and lots of game pieces from The Game Crafter, and then I cut out the tile boards from the cardboard of an Amazon shipping box. I shipped Tyler the first prototype to play—

TS: I'm the younger brother. I get his hand-me-downs.

RH: — Yeah, Tyler got the hand-me-down prototype. There were still lots of small modifications to the pieces and the mechanics. I played with the number of supplies, the amount of dense jungle, and lots of other things, swapping out pieces and changing stickers and what-not.

TS: I started by researching and referencing illustrations and digging through tons of vintage jungle comics to find the look that I wanted. After that, it just became a matter of incorporating that look into the game from a functional perspective—figuring out how to illustrate all of the pieces of the game to keep gameplay running smoothly, while keeping the aesthetic that I wanted. I feel like we achieved a good balance of everything looking good but still serving a function.

I had fun designing the animeeples. I thought it would add more to the game to have animal-shaped figures as opposed to wood blocks with stickers or cardboard.

relics

What is it about Relic Expedition that sets it apart from other games in the genre?

TS: I think the main thing that sets it apart is its accessibility. I play board games with a lot of people, and usually at least one person in the group is playing a game for the first time. If a game is difficult to learn, it’s not very fun the first time around for the person learning it. I think Relic Expedition is easy enough to get the hang of that it is fun that first time you play it, and it just keeps getting more interesting as your understanding and strategy develop. I also like that it plays in less than an hour and that you can play it with just two people. There’s not many games out there like that.

RH: Yeah, with so many games, the first few times through feel like trial runs or practice rounds while new players learn the rules. But with Relic Expedition, the tougher strategic choices really start once you have a full backpack. This gives new players a few turns to get oriented and to understand the mechanics, and then they can fully participate and enjoy that first game.

A more complete version of Relic Expedition

A lot of people comment that the game is like Carcassonne because the board is made by laying out tiles, with that board having a different shape each game. But it's quite different in Relic Expedition because your explorer is actually moving from tile to tile, revealing new tiles as he explores. I'm really happy with how well the variable board mechanic and the explorer theme work together.

Give us your top three games of all time, and why you like them so much.

RH:

  • 7 Wonders: Simultaneous action, multiple approaches for victory points, lots of depth packed into a one-hour game.

  • Tamsk: Abstract game with timers that you move.

  • Yahtzee: Managing probability and risk; reconsidering your strategy with each roll.

  • BONUS: Relic Expedition: Great theme, easy to learn, lots of replayability. I think it's now the game I've played the most number of times in my life.

TS:

  • Through the Ages: Civilization building game. There’s a lot of depth in trying to balance so many moving parts.

  • Pandemic: Working together to save the world! The cooperative mechanic is my favorite part about the game.

  • Citadels: Fun 2-4 player card game. It has a really fun balance of strategy and luck and super-fast game play.

Gaming is great—and we enjoy it thoroughly—but what matters most to you outside of gaming? Or is life just another big game we’re all trying to win?

TS: What matters most to me is to enjoy my life with the people I care about and create experiences with them. Gaming fits into this because it is a way to connect with my friends and family. I appreciate the opportunity to unplug, turn of the TV, and use our imaginations.

RH: Well, I do believe life is a game, an asymmetrical game where players start from different places and have different objectives—with skills and objectives changing multiple times throughout the game! I think playing tabletop games teaches you (on a small scale) many of the skills you need to be successful in life: managing resources, recognizing patterns, planning ahead, and cooperating or negotiating with others.

But for me, games are primarily about spending time with family and friends. I see making a game as a serious responsibility and a great honor. It's almost magical or religious, taking unrelated bits of wood and cardboard and transforming them into something that brings laughter and joy to people I've never met. I have been so inspired by some of the feedback reviewers have been publishing over the last couple of weeks. One player said to me in an email, "The game has made my children and friends very happy. Not sure what more you can ask for out of a game or of life."

Ok, now it’s time for the 1 word questions! Not that the questions are only one word, but that the answers should only be 1 word (or phrase)!

Oreo or Hydrox?

RH: Oreo

TS: Oreo

Galadriel or Arwen?

RH: Galadriel

TS: Arwen

Heads or Tails?

RH: Heads

TS: Heads

Favorite Batman Villain?

RH: Riddler

TS: Penguin

K.I.T.T. or the General Lee?

RH: K.I.T.T.

TS: General Lee

We would like to thank Randy and Tyler for taking the time to answer our questions and share a little more about Relic Expedition with us! Their campaign is about 65% funded, so head on over and consider backing it!

We have also been supplied with P&P prototypes of the game and will be posting our reviews of the game shortly, so stay tuned for that!

Thanks for reading and don't forget to check out our Facebook and Twitter accounts for more fun and information!

Kickstarter Weekly—A New Look

There has been such an increasing amount of activity on Kickstarter over the past few weeks, that we've decided to put a newer spin on our Kickstarter Weekly features. You'll still get them on Thursdays, but instead of piecing them out we're going to feature several projects, and give some news about them as we go. So welcome to the new Kickstarter Weekly here at TOG! Francis Drake componentsOur first project this week is from Eagle Games: Francis Drake, a game designed by Peter Hawes, puts players in the heart of Spain's new world as they sail the Caribbean, buying, selling, trading, and raiding ports for goods to return home with and sell for profits! The gameplay looks well-thought-out, and there are some customized aspects, giving it a higher replayability factor. The board and components look gorgeous as well!

The campaign has 32 days left and they've already blown past the funding goal, so it shouldn't be long before the stretch goals start getting knocked off. The only downside is the game is a little pricey, but if you've got your eye on a few other titles from the Eagle/Gryphon catalog, they've thrown together some really nice bundle packages.  Check out the campaign here, and consider getting in and helping them reach the stretch goals!

Paradise Fallen boxOur next campaign is Paradise Fallen from Crash Games, a card-management game game set in a modern post-apocalyptic island setting. Crash Games plans on setting up an entire series of games, using this title as a launching point, to create a deeper universe for games and expansions to live in. Players control tribes trying to survive while placing obstacles in the paths of the other tribes. You'll strive to survive, find food, and and explore the fallen paradise.

Canoe meeplesYou can grab a copy of the game for a $25 pledge, and there are again some nice bundles available for higher price points. The campaign has 27 days left and is still $10,000 short of their funding goal, so they've got a ways to go before it funds—let alone hitting stretch goals. I'm loving the artwork so far, and they've come up with some great outrigger canoe meeples as well! (What meeples will they come up with next!?) If card management, and post-apocalyptic island survival are your thing(s) then head on over and check out the campaign here.

TeramyydUp next is Teramyyd: Earthsphere a steam-punky, monster-fighting sky pirate, questing game.  I (Jeremiah) am very intrigued by this game. The game appears to have multiple scenarios for players to embark on, and within those scenarios lie different quests to complete on their way to victory. Let's not forget the cool sky pirates flying machines that you can upgrade and add to while trying to defeat sky monsters!

IO Worlds has blown past their funding goal by $40,000 with 32 days remaining on the campaign. And have already unlocked a new baddie and a new ship as the first two stretch goals. And the 3rd one looks way cool too! The bad news is, all of the early bird pledge levels have been devoured! So it will take a pledge of $75 to snag a copy of the game, but as the stretch goals pile up, the box you get will be stuffed with more and more cool little miniatures! You can check the campaign out for yourself, right here.

PL-Bicycle1If you haven't done so, your window of opportunity is closing to get in on the Pixel Lincoln: Bicycle Playing Card campaign! There are two inexpensive options for jumping on board, a $10 pledge will get you a 21-card expansion for Pixel Lincoln the deck building game. Or a $12 pledge will get you a deck of PL playing cards! There's just 5 days left, so best hurry on over!

Smallworld2And finally we want to extend a congratulations to Days of Wonder who CRUSHED their campaign to bring Small World 2 to the tablet realm (including PCs through Steam, android and iPad). They blew past their $150,000 goal, pulling in almost $400,000! This unlocked ALL of their stretch goals! Congrats to DoW, and the over 7,000 folks who backed the campaign!

Have you backed any of these projects? We'd love to hear what pushed you off the fence, and what you're excited about!

Thanks for reading TOG! Please tell your friends about us, and don't forget to check us out over on Facebook and Twitter, and don't forget to sign up on the right to receive TOG via email!

The Dr. Is In—A Special Kickstarter Weekly

drdemento_wide-64bd75868a93139ae1b32348c8ba10458476e239-s6-c10Allow us a moment as we divert from our typical posts about gaming to share a special Kickstarter campaign with you... There is a generation, maybe even two generations, out there who are unaware of a national treasure who's obscurity is made even more obscure by the passing of the syndicated radio era. This national treasure is, of course, the one and only Dr. Demento.

Dr. Demento for decades brought the weird and wacky side of music to radios across the country, and it was on his show that Weird Al Yankovic first rode the air waves. I (Jeremiah) can remember countless Sunday nights tuning in late, and recording each show on cassette tapes, and then wearing them out during the week.

dementoEnter Kickstarter. The indie film studio Meep Morp Studios is Kickstarting a project to produce a feature length documentary on the life and times of Dr. Demento. "Under the Smogberry Trees" is the first ever film to take on the task of telling the story of Dr. Demento, aka Barry Hanson, who not only brought to light comedic performances and parodies, but also wrote his thesis on opera and earned a masters degree in folk music studies.

The campaign has a lofty goal of $100,000, but they are offering some cool rewards for backing, everything from a t-shirt to dinner with the good doctor himself!

You can check out the campaign here. And you can check out the Dr. Demento show here.

Thanks for indulging this diversion, and thanks for reading!

Give us a shout on Facebook and Twitter! And don't forget to subscribe over on the right! ----->

Fox and Chicken—Kickstarter Weekly

Kickstarter seems to have no shortage of fun and interesting new games these days, and some that are innovative spins on classic favorites. Today's Kickstarter Weekly is in the latter category. Michael Fox, who is the host and writer of The Little Metal Dog Show, is also the brains behind this campaign.

chickenfoxFox and Chicken is a new "slightly more family friendly" version of the old standard, Werewolf—or as some know it Mafia.

Fox and Chicken pits players against each other in the form of a team of Foxes who are out to eat all the chickens at night fall, and in some twisted role of animal kingdom law, the chickens have the power to execute players who they believe may be a fox.

foxchicken

The unique, and fun twist to this is there are a handful of special role cards that give certain chickens and foxes special abilities. These special cards also have a bearing on the entire game, depending on the player's fate.

The project is only a few days in and is already at nearly 40% funded. For US backers the total is roughly $18 to get your own copy.

If you're a fan of the Werewolf/Mafia originals, this looks like a great way to spiff up the old standby and create a new experience with casual gamers, without diving into a completely new set of rules!

Thanks for reading and as always we appreciate your interactions in the comments, and on Facebook and Twitter!

Rocket Dice—Bonus Kickstarter Weekly

And I think it's gonna be a long, long time/‘til touch down brings me round again to find/I'm not the man they think I am at home Oh no, no, no, I'm a rocket dice Rocket diiiiice, rolled some snake-eyes and now I am hosed

(With apologies to Sir Elton John)

diceGame Salute has launched a cool new Kickstarter campaign for Rocket Dice—rocket-shaped dice perfect for any space game. Prices start at $5 for one die of any color, all the way up to $120 for 31 rocket dice and a bunch of Alien Frontiers stuff.

In addition to the "normal" pip dice, you can also get Fudge style, which have two sides with a "+", two sides with a "-" sign, and two blank sides. Or dice with numerals instead of pips. And Game Salute helpfully did the homework on a bunch of spacey games—such as Star Trek Catan and Eclipse—so you'll know just how many Rocket Dice you'll need is you want to replace the dice in those games.

They've already hit their goal, so it will fund. Check them out on Kickstarter. And thanks for reading!

Relic Expedition—Kickstarter Weekly

relic start Today's Kickstarter weekly features a cool-looking game of exploration and adventure.

Relic Expedition is a game that features a variable board that grows as the game progresses. Players are treasure hunters searching for treasure in a deep and vast jungle. The game looks to be packed full of great strategic decisions, lots of variance, and a good mix of surprises.

Relic Expedition will be (should it get founded) the inaugural title for Foxtrot Games, which is a couple of guys who are off to a good start with this one!

The only down side to this Kickstarter is the price tag to get a copy of the game is a tad on the high side at $49. But judging from the images, you're going to get some really quality components!

backpack

You can check out the campaign here, including a PDF download of the rule book! Are you backing this? We'd love to hear what pushed you off the fence! Or you still on the fence? Tell us why! Leave it in the comments below! Thanks for reading, and don't forget those Facebook and Twitter things! And we especially appreciate it when you subscribe over on the right!

Components

Emperor's New Clothes—A Double Take Review

Emperor'sA couple of weeks ago we received prototype copies of the Kickstarter game Emperor's New Clothes—a game with a new twist on an old tale. We can't wait to share our thoughts with you. The game includes:

1 - Game Board

64 - Player cards

8 - Role cards (1 Emperor, 2 Swindlers, 4 Townsfolk, and 1 Child who breaks the illusion)

4 - Six sided dice

A whole pile of resource tokens

4 Meeples (for score keeping)

1- Starting player pawn

and the rule book.

The game begins with players randomly choosing a role and keeping that role secret. And dealing 5 cards to each player—it's pretty much that easy!

The player turn goes something like this: The starting player rolls all four dice, then decides whether to keep them, or re-roll any number of them, up to two times. The reason for keeping a certain numbers/combinations relies solely on the cards in your hand. Each card has certain abilities that can be triggered by certain dice roll totals or combos (or both in some cases) which will then allow you to score resource tokens.

emperor's 2Resource tokens are used for 1 of 2 things on your turn: either to buy you victory points, or you can cash them in for more cards. It often depends on what your role is. So the players take turns rolling dice, and using them to activate cards out of there hands, which then scores them resource tokens. After players have decided whether to spend or save their resource tokens, the round continues with the next player's turn. One round consists of each player taking a turn, and then victory conditions are checked. If no one has won, then the next round begins; players select new roles, the starting player pawn is passed to the left, and the whole thing starts over. The tricky part is there are sooo many ways to win and/or lose in this game! It all depends on which role you have (which, by the way, changes after every round!!). There's an element of "The Resistance" in this game, which basically means that if someone finds out who you are mid-round, there are plenty of "Town Crier" cards in the deck which players can use to block certain actions, take dice away, and stop you from scoring resources.

Emperor full artThe beautiful part of this game is the marriage of old-school table-top gaming, and technology. The cards, game board and even the dice have been printed using some ridiculous ground breaking process - that we would almost call magic! We certainly don't claim to understand how it works, and Hoke's gaming (designers) and Game Salute are definitely not spilling the beans (something about patent lawyers and all that). But as far as we can tell it's like a mix between those "hidden picture" images they used to sell at the mall kiosks, and the technology described in this video from MIT:

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rWycBEHn3s]

It's said that because of the printing process there are actually a small percentage of gamers (estimated to be around 3%) who will actually not be able to see the artwork—or at least not in great detail.

Jeremiah—Let's put aside the unreal components for a minute. If this game was printed via a standard process, it would be an amazing game. There's enough depth in the mechanics to keep the veteran gamers coming back, but it's light and fun enough to introduce to a new or casual gamer.

Firestone—I'm always looking for a game that's going to be a hit with my game group, but that I can also bring out with newbies. Emperor's fills that void.

Jeremiah—Let's also not forget the humor side of this! Sabotaging your friends with cards like "Skid Mark" and "Holey Sock" add a decent and light-hearted amount of skullduggery to the mix, without giving too much power to the swindlers!

Firestone—I thought the "Bamboozle" card was a little overpowered, but for the most part these were a good mix. I'll never forget the look on my friend's face when I played "The Man Who Was Thursday" on him.

Jeremiah—I know Scott is probably going to disagree with me on this, but I love the randomness of changing roles after every round!! It keeps you invested in the game, and keeps you always thinking! Having just ONE strategy will not score you the victory in this game!

Firestone—Oh Jeremiah, you and your crazy love of chaos...

Jeremiah—What can I say about the components... When I opened the box it was breathtaking. To get that kind of depth, movement, and clarity on a completely FLAT surface, without the use of glasses or special lights! Totally science-fiction-type stuff; the future is here, folks!

Firestone—Agreed! The kids were begging to play this as soon as they spotted that board. And it's not just pretty; all of the information you need in the game is right there on the board. The meeples were great; I'm so sick of companies insisting on giving me crappy plastic pieces. I love the old-school basic-ness of the wooden bits. Basic-ness sounds like bacon; now I'm hungry...

Jeremiah—I fell in love with this game and the idea from the word go! The mechanics are an incredible amalgamation of card and resource management, dice rolling, and backstabby role playing, with a dash of chaos mixed in. All that wrapped in a beautiful package! This is a future Game Of the Year candidate, I score it an 11!

Firestone—This gets a big thumbs-up from me, too. Often games with this many mechanisms don't do any of them particularly well, but they've managed to combine everything into a nearly perfect whole. Emperor's New Clothes should be seen to be believed.

The Kickstarter project ends in just 6 days, so check it out and see what you're missing.

Pixel Lincoln Challenge!

We're starting the week off with a sort of Kickstarter-ish bit of info for you—that includes a cool challenge. Jason Tagmire, designer of the eagerly anticipated Pixel Lincoln card game, has designed a Pixel Lincoln Bicycle deck (which is currently in the midst of a Kickstarter campaign), and has also issued a challenge to YOU.

They're looking for some folks to design a game around the theme of the deck—could be a trick-taking game, set, building, solitaire anything. You may have always thought, "Hey, it would be cool to design my own card game." Well this is your chance to get your feet wet. And then dry them off and design a game. There's a whole lot more information over on the Kickstarter page for the campaign; you can follow this link for the details!

Thanks for reading, and we appreciate all the social media love! Look us up on Facebook and Twitter!

Here's a look at the spiffy deck!

PL-CardsBreakdown

Walk The Plank!—Kickstarter Weekly

planklogoThis is a special Kickstarter project for me (Firestone). Jared Tinney and Shane Steely aren't just the designers of Walk The Plank, they're friends of mine. I've been gaming with them for at least 5 years, and I've played the prototype version of Walk The Plank! many times. It's fun. Seriously...I'm not just saying that because I'm friends with the designers. From the Kickstarter page:

"Walk The Plank! is all about trying to out-guess your fellow shipmates, with often disastrous results.  You plan three moves ahead but your crew is so incredibly stupid that if you plan to shove a pirate off the plank on your third move and all he sees are his own best mates, he will still shove away!  The bigger the action the worse the results will be for someone, very possibly YOU!  cards

Play order goes clockwise but turn order is COUNTER CLOCKWISE which really makes the mechanic hilarious for this game!

On your turn you will:

  • Choose 3 of your 10 action cards and place them face down in front of you (first action on top)
  • Resolve each action in turn by going around the table clockwise three times, adding/removing planks, pushing and shoving and just generally making a fool of yourself.
  • Laugh your head off as your men thrash about stupidly, bungling most of your good intentions
  • Retrieve most of your cards and begin again.  Some cards marked with a skull are too powerful to play in back to back rounds, leave those face up for one round before retrieving them.

At the end of a round check for the end of game condition, if there are only two (or fewer) pirates left or only pirates of one color left, the game is over.  There may be a shared victory (one of each of two players' pirates left), a solo victory (only one player's pirate(s) left), or NO VICTORY when every pirate has Walked The Plank!"

Check out the campaign; they've already reached their goal, and you can get the game for a mere $18 shipped. And we'll be interviewing the guys soon! Thanks for reading, and show us some love on Facebook and Twitter.

Loka: The World of Fantasy Chess—Bonus Kickstarter Weekly!

LokaCoverThere are so many great Kickstarter projects right now that we're bringing you a bonus campaign this week! It's Mantic Games' Loka: The World of Fantasy Chess. They're trying to raise enough money to offer four unique chess factions, based on the four elements—Water is still locked up. There are lots and lots of options and rewards—it's the sort of campaign where you can find yourself spending a lot of money before you know it. But the sculpts are pretty cool looking! It looks like it plays rather like chess—but with new and different rules. Some of those new rules include:

sculptsChoose your army - Each player get to choose which pieces they put onto the board, meaning both players command different armies on the battlefield – do you field a small but elite force with three Queens, or do you go for a mass horde of Pawns?

Fantasy Scenery – Change the shape of the battlefield with movement blocking terrain that alters the path you’ll take into combat.

Dice Driven Combat – a simple and elegant system using eight sided dice adds some unpredictability to combat, placing extra emphasis on strategy and positioning as pieces build in power with support from their comrades.

Not sure how it will all shake out, but if you're interested in chess at all, you might want to consider checking out this campaign.

Thanks for reading!